Do we become our Patrons

This is an ongoing discussion I’m having with @Kindraathe

Do we become like or become perhaps the spirits that we are close to?

God what a fascinating thought. I know in 22 years Prince Orobas has shaped and molded my character in many ways. I do think of myself as his voice in this world and I consider it task to handle his interests here. However he does the same exact things for me.

Let me clarify nobody speaks for Prince Orobas except Prince Orobas. I’m not special I just can hear pretty well. That’s all I meant. He chided me about how the above might come across. :horse:

Do we take on some of their powers as time goes on…I wonder.

Anyone with an opinion or a thought on the subject is more than welcome to post on this. Id like to hear from others and see if there may be some consensus.


My stance on this is, Do we not begin as them?

I think I’ve always been this person and my “patron(s)” would agree on that. I have always been who I am and I think that contributes significantly to why I have certain spirits that are closer to me than others. It isn’t that I am becoming them, but instead that the reason we’re close is who we all are. Myself and the spirits.

So my view isn’t that we become them, but that our boundaries become blurred along the way because we start out so entangled as is.


That statement there leads me to consider/believe that it is possible for a spirit to mold us into a version of their energy. Kind of like a marriage influences your likes dislikes, and how you express/show/act in front of others. Also my personal point of view is that for a spirit and human to bond/work together is there must be some chemistry between you (preexisting) and also you more than likely are compatible in other things like sense of humor and the like. So I think that as time progresses the more work you two do you eventually rub off on each other. So in a way you become an aspect of said spirit (in a sense).
That I’m being said I will be following this thread as I am sure there will be very different opinions that will be mentioned!


Excellently put! I think we’re thinking along the same lines!


No. I think we are closed with X spirit and not Y because our personal characteristics and life choices (where did we put our time, so to speak) lead us to their spheres of influence.


I strongly resonate with this and agree very much.


In my humble opinion and my very limited experiecne which is none when it come to this particular spirit set. I believe the more you "work’ you create a bond and the longer the bond its like some of their characteristics rub off unto you not to mention spiritually they do influence you one way or another. Not necessaroly become just some things rub off.


This makes sense to me. It happens with people too.

For example (just one or we will be on a whole different trolley…) in my 36.5 years alive I’d never heard a Black Sabbath song until I started spending time with my husband. I’d never been around anyone who listened to them and I heard awful things about them.

He plays bass and it’s some of his favorite music, and I actually like a lot of the songs, and other similar artist choices that are his- that I’d have never heard of if I wasn’t with him.

Similarly I’ve rubbed off on him in many ways.


I think it depends on our, and their, nature.

Some, I think, might be drawn to us, or vice-versa, because of similarity, or because they have qualities that balance ours in a necessary way.

For instance, I can’t ever see myself becoming like Metatron; if anything he couldn’t be more opposite to my nature. I mean he is stoic, structured, lawful, clockwork-force; he represents order and is no-nonsense, calm, and not prone to being emotional. I’m… the opposite of all that. Mercurial, forgetful, no sense of time horizons or planning, a bit chaotic, extremely forgetful (case in point, I wrote this twice without even noticing), tend to disregard authority and do whatever pleases me, bursts of emotion that come and go in 15 minutes, cries at everything (happy or sad)…

In this case, I think he brings necessary calm, balance, and structure into my life. Actually, I have noticed my executive functioning disorder has lessened somewhat since I began working with him closely. For example, I now actually get to appointments early or on time instead of taking three tries to leave the house and getting everywhere 10+ minutes late. Small victories.

Then there is Melek Taus, who is very similar to my nature, although like my nature ratcheted into extreme overdrive. That, I suppose, teaches me balance in a way as well. But he is still a relatively new influence in my life so in that regard it’s difficult to say.

Leviathan is very alien to my nature as well, but similar to Metatron, he brings an element of calm and forward-thinking with him, and his presence always prompts me to think things through. He has rubbed off on me in that regard. While I can still act without thinking, or say something thoughtless carelessly, the more time I spend with Leviathan, the more I gain this quality. However I think he also makes me very introverted, and digs into my subconscious. Being more in touch with your emotions isn’t always a good thing, when it means you feel unpleasant emotions more strongly for longer periods, or you become broody and introverted, or unable to stop feeling things no matter how much you want to, or if it brings up unpleasant memories that you don’t want to face. But I suppose Leviathan also gives me the protection and support to face all that.

I’ll come back in 10 years and update this thread with my findings. :laughing:


Yes I do agree with this. I noticed that all the Fixed Stars I was initially drawn to were strong when I was born. With other spirits, I suppose many were similar in nature to me, but other times not so much as far as I’m aware.

So, certainly we can call on spirits that are different to our nature. And often times when a person has a bad experience with a certain spirit or their petitions are not swiftly answered, a Planet of a similar nature was afflicted when that person was born. Or, that is what I have found.

We have a sort of a pre-existing relationship with them, in the sense that we may be of a similar nature, and so naturally drawn to friendship with them.

I don’t think we become them, however. I believe we are individual (However, in my view, individuality is largely an illusion to begin with), and so distinct in some way from them.


This is really interesting, something I had never considered. I’ll be looking into this.


The way Orobas explained this to me once was 1+1=1. Horse and man riding together are one. The lines between where I begin and end get blurry sometimes. At least that’s how I see it.


Become them? Doubtful. Become like? Probably since people tend to be or become like those they associate with (but that begs the question are they associates because they’re like beforehand or not).

@DarkGodofQlippa that’s an interesting analogy but who’s the horse and who’s the rider and does the horse ever ride the rider making the rider the horse (ride)? Jk

Since we’re talking spirits not physical animals though I think I saw a video somewhere of a guy carrying a young horse on or over his shoulders (colt or filly, I don’t know) so that horse was definitely riding the would be rider.

Be pretty hard for a 1000 lb animal to ride a person when it’s grown (I don’t actually know the average horses weight though so 1000 is a guess).


I’d agree with this. I think we both start and evolve further into ourselves, but who that is often mirrors or intertwines (to some extent) with a spirit that we’re close to. Not all the spirits we’re close to. But at least one or a couple.

For me, that’s Dantalion. He’s the first spirit I evoked (knowing what I was doing at least) and he was with me before then too. There’s a reason he was the first one after all and there’s a reason (other than him bullying and threatening me :sweat_smile: :sweat_smile:) that we’re in a pact now. He highlights the parts of me that are so very me but also have been sheltered or “othered”.

As a part of that/this pact, I’ve also gained some of his energy. Obviously he is a djinn, a spirit, and I am a human. But there’s a very blurred boundary in some places. I think blurred is even too gentle a word in one case. Yes, I began as myself. But that doesn’t mean I am not also being affected by his place in my life and our entanglement of energy.


Well interesting @Kish when I channel him he DOES ride me for a time…:thinking:


Yes this refers to that “special” relationship.

I wonder how much of our natal Destiny we alter by force with these entanglements and this merging. Just a thought…
:thinking:. That’s a good question for @Dankquanicus


Actually this raises a really RHP idea.

Don’t they worship in order to become? (RHP.)

Do some of us not have arrangements to stay with them for extended periods of time? Do some of us not want to be something akin to belonging with or to them? (LHP. Post-human death arrangements among others, and similar things.)


If that isn’t the point of magick I don’t know what is :joy: :joy:

Of course we don’t always go against our nature, but at least for me there’s some force involved at times. “Low” and/or “black” magick at least.

I want the Astrology perspective too. Seems super interesting.


Oh I agree, yet sometimes I’m reading it and I’m like yep… those boys lost me again. :rofl: :woman_facepalming:t2:

I think I’ve got half their replies book marked to reread so I can try to understand them and actually get it lol. :rofl: :rofl: :rofl: :rofl:


Yeah I’m left in the dust too @Keteriya :laughing::laughing::laughing: