lol Super interesting and super hard to wrap my mind around at the same time. I’m just like wow. How am I having such a hard time with this lmao… 
Can I get the Remedial Astrology version please and thank you… 
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Well there’s the old adage of becoming those who you spend time with when it comes to people and from my understanding the interactions and conversations that people have with spirits are essentially the same sans a physical body so I don’t see why it would work any different. As @Keteriya said we tend to rub off on and be influenced by those we are around and I definitely think that she is correct, I would even go so far as to agree with you on the energetic side of the conversation @anon75849095. I have personally interacted with people or situations and the energy of those things most definitely does rub off so when dealing with beings of pure energy I would think that effect would be magnified. @ReyCuervo made a point that I think is important as well. One thing I have noticed while learning the law of attraction is that whatever vibrations/energy we put out will attract the same in the situations we encounter so I definitely see this as a mix of both being influenced and attracting things in a similar lane to the one we occupy.
I don’t think we become them though, that seems less like a relationship and more akin to the rhp idea of “becoming one with the universe”. I think that we grow and become a similar yet distinct being because of our interaction with them. And that as we interact with more and more beings, spiritual in nature or not, we become a wholly distinct being on our own.
As always though this is just my two cents and I am more than ready to point to my lack of experience and say that I could be entirely wrong.
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This is a rather complicated matter, and the exact philosophy depends on if you see the stars as being direct causes (which I touched on here)
I will be referring to the influence of the stars as if they are direct causes for the purpose of this post, even if that is not entirely accurate, but it is accurate to some views.
Ultimately, the Stars relate to the very Spirit of the World. They influence our emotions and our passions and drive, having also been involved in creating us as we read in Plato’s ‘Timaeus’. They give us part of our will and our desires.
The LHP is generally very heavily focused on individual emotions and desires, focusing on the will and on satisfying the desires of the magician. So I would argue that it is something that actually lines very heavily if not perfectly with fate, and a magician’s natal chart should reflect this.
Of course, you get different definitions of the LHP and so on, but I believe many will agree that is part of what most consider it to be.
What is “forceful” here is not acting against the stars, but rather acting with them, if the magick has been performed to meet a desire.
And ultimately it is not quite possible to move beyond the influence of the stars as long as you are in this corporeal world. You may be able to act from your divine soul without the influence of them (which is a Hermetic view, and comes with Theurgy, which is practice translated literally as “God Work”), but even with all the magick a magician does, the outcome of any spell or working can be seen from the state of the heavens at the time the working was done. This is true for any action that can be done as well, such as a marriage, starting a business, tending to a garden, or cutting one’s hair (and William Ramesey does give electional rules for cutting hair in his Astrologia Restaurata). Every action can (and just about always is) be influenced by the movement and state of the Stars.
But others believe that you cannot move beyond fate, and that everything here moves in accordance with fate. This view was not so common among the Medieval and Renaissance European and Arabic astrologers, as free will is part of Christianity and Islam, and Platonism and Hermeticism was also dominant at this time.
But the view of total pre-determination was more common in the Roman Empire.
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It is a large and very interesting bridge to cross to learn traditional astrology. It follows an entirely different world-view from the modern dominant world-view, and that can be a hard bridge to cross.
A book that might help you is an excellent one called “The Elizabethan World-View” by E.M.W. Tillyard. It goes over at least how the English saw the world during the Renaissance. It is a good introduction and in some ways an initiation.
The traditional Medieval and Renaissance European world-view was heavily influenced by Platonism and Hermeticism, but these philosophies have falled out of fashion, and have been replaced with a very materialistic one, that also tends to see the cosmos as chaotic.
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I believe it can be done to a great extent, both through magickal and mundane means. I know an oriental diviner who have personally shown me how he helped alter his client’s nativity. As of today, the part of her natal chart that deals with career is inaccurate and you will delineate it wrongly, If you aren’t aware of what she did.
Of course, inclinations towards occult will be indicated in your chart regardless, and as @Dankquanicus mentioned, the outcome of every action can theoretically be predicted, If you know the time of its inception, but I believe magick is meta, at least to some degree. Curbing negative planetary influence is a standard practice in the Indian tradition, and I’ve also heard accounts of it working well.
Note: I may be biased because my natal says i’m a deadbeat, so take it with a grain of salt 
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I know a lot’s been said and I don’t have the time to run through and ruminate at the moment. But I should respond.
One of the reasons I sung to Hecate, Hel, Ma’at, Pele, an angel, a djinn, and others was to attune to their energies. Hecate brought me to evocation (I apologize for those that have heard this a thousand times). Before I knew what copal incense was, I was singing to her and (some of) them. For years, 5/7 days a week.
Did I become them? No, but I attuned to them. I could understand their specific versions of that energy more. I was in their presence and it changed how I responded to that energy, at the very least.
I feel very confident that they don’t want us to be them. But there are parts of them we can ceetainly use in our development.
Hecate has been with me.from the start of this journey (for lifetimes, I was told) and largely tells me to go elsewhere, to learn this and that, parts and aspects needed for my journey. Yet, you don’t find much about work with her because of this.
I think we refine our own aspects and, if we listen, tjey can help us refine the ones we.trult need, not just the ones we’re interested in. While not visible here, those that know me will remember a variety of areas I worked through in support of this. I put my money (and time and energy) where my mouth is, in this area.
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I wanted to say that I’ve slightly updated my view on this topic. I think @anon75849095 has a good point talking about “becoming” them, but that wording feels a little extreme to me.
I’ve been thinking about the bonds formed between “patrons” and us humans. And I think that the more time we spend with them, the more time we spend allowing them in our space and within us, the more like them we do become. I don’t think it’s limited to their “offices,” though. I think it’s a lot deeper that.
So anyways, that’s my updated view. I still believe everything I said before, this is just an addition.
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I think I understand what you’re saying. I’m having trouble finding the right verbage and delivery for it myself though.
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Imagine that you are a famous, successful film director. You’ve made films that win famous awards, are rich, and even have a sub-genre named after you. People say your name, and they mean specific uses of color, shadow, and camera angles. You are established, a goalpost-marker in your “field”.
One day, you encounter a singer. You exchange brief notes. You go home. Your use of color in film changes from black and red, to black and pink.
You age, and find yourself focusing more on music in your films, rather than the visual elements of it.
That’s what it feels like to me.
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Are you saying that this relationship is akin to one between a human and “patron?” My understanding of that word leads me to believe they can’t be compared because in your situation you trade notes and go home, but in a “patron” situation you’d be routinely sharing energy?
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I think your definition of Patron and mine are different because that doesn’t sound like a patronage situation to me. But… if that’s your patron/patronage situation then as long as it fits and works for you and you’re enjoying it there’s nothing wrong with it.
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@CosmicTofu I just read the last post and mine again. I wanted to clarify that I put patron in quotes because I find the word personally distasteful, not because I’m insinuating you’re using it wrong. I just don’t use that word about any of my relationships and would probably never so that’s the reason.
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@Laurel_Spider It’s cool, I didn’t take offense. I don’t use that word either.
@Kish Probably bro. I’m trying to rework my example. I feel like I missed the mark. What does it mean to you?
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@CosmicTofu Patronage (having a patron/patroness) to me essentially means having someone who guides you may sometimes pulls strings for you (like if they know somebody they get you an interview or tryout, they sometimes pay for stuff that helps you in your venture (career/business) and they sometimes do things for you because they want to help want to see you succeed. They may also stand up for you in certain instances. They also may sponsor you (which means when they set up an opportunity for you they may put their reputation on the line for you like thru tell me VIP you’d be perfect for the job and their relationship with said VIP could’ve ruined if you screwed it up).
The Cambridge dictionary webpage says this
Patronage (noun) support
Example: The charity enjoys the
patronage of many prominent local businessmen
Also…
(Mainly disapproving)
The power of a person to give someone an important job or position (in exchange for help or support)
(Formal) the business given to a shop or restaurant etc by its customers
Add: my interpretation/explanation is basically the old school interpretation of having a patron but hopefully between my explanation and my copying the dictionary webpage meanings/examples this will help you out.
Add: where it says mainly disapproving that version is what people without a patron who are jealous often think of patronage (having a patron)
A patron saint is a bit different from my explanation of a patron although they have the ability to help/aid/assist with certain stuff patron is actually a bad use of the term patron. A patron saint is essentially a saint who specializes in something and if you ask them they’ll help you with it (purportedly). That’s why it’s a poor way to use of the word patron.m because they aren’t a patron for anyone they’re just a saint that MAY help with whatever their specialty is.
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