Norse's Ingot Production Process for Yin Debt

I went through a lot of different processes and procedures during my making of 3,241 ingots in support of paying my Official Yin Debt. I want to collect those notes here to help others, since my Maoshan log is out of public view.


This is what we’re attempting to replicate via paper means.

This came in a box of Chinese New Year stuff from 2012 I bought off of Goodwill Online.


I’ve started working on the ingots for my debt. Right now, I’m using a 2 piece solution with yellow 20# paper and gold mylar. Haven’t found a good solution for preparing the pieces to be folded, but have some tape to keep them in place better. I wanted to use something “natural” like hide glue, but then realized the gold mylar isn’t exactly natural :joy:

I did get the ok to proceed with this work. I’m using a 4" x4" square. There are some 3" pieces remaining and I was throwing them away when I was told I could simply make half sized ones for half the value. Given that I have 29000 of these to make for both my Underworld and personal debt (14,240, iirc x 2).

The trick to cutting the mylar with the paper cutter is to start about 1/4" in and roll through to the other side. Take a pair of scissors to that last 1/4" or it can bunch up and ruin your piece.

I’m using incense to smoke cleanse each square individually and listening to ritual music while keeping my intent. Of course, I already cut and smoked them with the intent, but just in case I get lazy at one of those points, …

6 keepable ones tonight. Wasted a lot of time in prep. I’ll likely make a 4" piece of cardboard to use as a straight edge and measuring device so I can cut the long pieces quicker. I’ll likely clean off parts of my ritual table there to stretch it out. If I do it on the dining room table, I’m likely to find cat teeth marks in some of the pieces when I’m not looking.

Metallic Gold Foil from Amazon - Note does not hold shape

Paper used from Amazon


I thought of spray adhesive, but tape it quicker. I dabbled with making my own double-sided paper back when I did a lot of origami.

I have the 5000 coming, which shows they are pre-folded, but $84 for 5000 means I want to look at alternatives, when I need so many. I went looking for wrapping paper, which wouldn’t need the second piece of paper, but couldn’t find any I was willing to spring for. Spray paint isn’t a cheaper option. Foil paper is on the more expensive side with those types of numbers.

So, I’ll keep looking.

Concerning storage, I leave them collapsed, so I can stack them in a large Amazon box. When the box is full, I will burn that amount and start over. It doesn’t to be done in one sitting.

Not looking forward to this. I don’t want to just buy them all. I can feel some attention on my efforts.
Even if I buy a significant amount, this is a way to help curry favor.


I don’t recommend the 2 paper method. By the time I measure, cut, measure, cut, etc… it’s too slow.

I’ve done about 80 since getting off work. New workflow is much faster, but 80 is simply too little. It will take me 6 months for the first half alone.

I will use up what I have, but this isn’t going to work.

I do want to try spray paint on 20# paper. I wouldn’t need to use 2 or tape both sides with 1 sheet. All of that takes a lot of time.

All right, after midnight. Time for bed. Here was the stuff I was doing today to speed things up (and did, considerably).

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This is just too time consuming to keep doing it this way. I got another 80 done today, spent hours on preparing, and putting it all together means I’m getting 10-11 done an hour, which sucks.

I’ll likely buy some spray paint and see if that’s going to work. I’m not going to get more than 4 per page with the 8x11.5. I’ll have to see how long the can of spray paint lasts and do some math. The upside is that I can use whatever paper color I have available or find cheaply, so long as the paint sticks to it properly.

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Been trying other approaches.

I could get about 25 pages per can of spray paint. It was about $9 a can. I reduced the size to 3.5"x3.5" and got 6 ingots per page. Roughly 16 cents an ingot, not including the paper cost and 20# paper isn’t cheap around here.

Or I could order 1000 for $16 folded, but collapsed.

The paint does wipe off a little, but it isn’t noticeable on the ingots itself.

Likely to do some more experimenting with methods. Smaller tape that doesn’t need scissor cut, glue for sticking it (similar to Nephenthe’s adhesive suggestion, but not the origami way).

I don’t want to just buy them all. It feels like cheating. I’ve folded several hundred at this point and want to keep doing that, too. I can’t see buying them mostly and laboring on them from base materials as equal payments. Especially since I could just buy them all.

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Oof, despite how it looks, there are only 380 in there. Which is both invigorating and demoralizing at the same time.

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Yeah, been un- and re- folding like a mad man. Finished the pre-bought stuff tonight.

That’s 11,000.

Did the math and I only need 1400 more to complete the first half. The Yin debt is mandatory. I didn’t see that the personal debt was, since that can supposedly be worked off over your life.

Those won’t all fit in the Twin bed sheets I bought. They’re supposed to be presented in yellow bags, addressed with the debt, the amounts…

Well, I wrote that all out withy calligraphy set on yellow paper. Took about 4 hours, including making the ink and all of the rituals. I may have said that already, but my Geritol is wearing off.

I want to burn the 11,000 tomorrow. Get that space back and, frankly, relieve the daily pressure I feel to work on it until it’s done.


And now we come to the dyeing. Some genius on the bottle said that if I wanted a darker color, use twice the amount of dye. Well no shit, Mr Wizard.

You’re about to see my special stirring stick.

They made mention of waiting 30 or 60 minutes, but it’s late and I don’t feel like it. I also need as dark a yellow as I can get, since the color on the outside is a bit light.

I’ve dyed origami paper from powdered dye before. I don’t feel like staining the garage floor a piss yellow color. I’m going to let it drop dry and it looking like there’s a trail of yellow drops all over the garage floor…

So, I’ll hang it up in the yard tomorrow. And you may get another colorful story or two.

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They are now hanging up and drying in the sun.

I stirred it several times last night, but there was still some uneven dyeing visible. Not really happy about that, but it’s purpose is to get burnt.

Once dried, I’ll break the sewing machine out and sew up the bags. I did forget to get some white cotton cord to tie it with. Can’t imagine it’s a deal breaker.


And tonight, they now house the 11,000 ingots.

Might even burn some tomorrow. Haven’t decided.


It’s choppy, but here. I had to cut out some of the identifying things in the neighborhood, so it moves around a bit. Really, this is just to keep another set of documentation that I did the ritual.


how did you know how much debt you have?


The calculation method I used was from Maoshan literature. I’m not sure outside of that.

This practice has been documented for longer than the Goetia, so I think it’s a language barrier thing and maybe a cultural one with non-Eastern cultures like mine.

I will ask for non-Maoshan calculations when we speak next. I sent this thread to him and will ask when he responds.


I see, thank you!


You could always press met paper really hard on it to get the coin pattern imprint and remove & carefully dry that so you can later glue on the coin pathern and do paper mache’ for the shape.
Btw I like the result you got :slight_smile:

Add: for anyone who is reading and doesn’t know what paper mache is (because it’s not something you hear about every day, you use strips of gluey paper slap on object dry them til had cut the paper shell off (and if necessary glue/tape the halves together then post as desired.

Add: it’d be a bit too large if not from a kids play adult tea party dishes set but gravy boots are usually ingot shaped.


Pay attention to the bottom of p.346

I would do 10% of the number and multiple it by two. I was born in the year of the snake. So, that would be 70000 = 7000 x 2 = 14,000. Using other methods, this was about what my Official debt was. It included payment for the transfer of the funds on my behalf, too.

My first 14000 was for the Official debt. The second 14000 is for my personal debt and I don’t know if that is specific to the school I’m pursuing or not.


I see thank you for sharing the book! :purple_heart:

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