Wandering with the Stars

[Xepera_maSet]

@Dankquanicus

I used to feel the same way, before I got into more traditional practices. As I said, if one wants a Celestial example of this, it is what is behind the Stars, the great Void that is not one single point, but rather a great unified whole, that seems to enclose the entire universe within itself, and which gives birth to the Stars themselves. This is what is traditionally called the Primum Mobile.

But there does not seem to be any reason to believe in such a unified whole, especially in such a fractured reality. The only “unified whole” our ancestors recognized was primordial chaos, which despite the paradoxical nature of anti-cosmic “Satanism,” was not something good or honored. Indeed were this unified whole to become a unified whole once again, none of us would exist anymore, making it at odds with Western LHP metaphysics. What is interesting is you appear to go on and promote a reality made from many different substances.

Horary Astrology is a good example. It is divination by looking at the state of the Heavens the time a question is understood, and through certain methods of judgement, obtaining the answer to the question from it. This is to say, the entire cosmos moves together as one whole to such an extent that even our thoughts are aligned with the rest of the cosmos. This is similar with omens, and Plotinus argues that this unity of the entire universe as one body is how divination in general works (Divining things through the flight of birds was a common practice in the Roman Empire).

See I reject this kind of deterministic view of reality where that which is external wholly defines the internal, especially to the point where we can predict that internal from the external. Despite the popularity of many new age beliefs, the ancients also were not using the stars to protect the future, but rather to perform what Plato called anamnesis. They were not looking to the future but the past.

Hmm, if you are referring to the Sun here, I’m afraid neither I nor anyone I’ve come across who worship/revere the Sun believe it is the core and center of all things, especially that it is the only one, and certainly haven’t experienced or observed the Sun himself trying to convince anyone of this. Rather, we seem to spread out to revere many other Gods. And, I am being honest about my experience and observence here.

Sure, but this is like saying Christianity does not honor the sun since they would not recognize themselves as a sun cult. It’s more about tracing the history of these ideas. You yourself admit to this solar mindset of the external defining the internal, that comes from the solar/agricultural traditions of Egypt as opposed to the stellar ones whether you personal honor the sun above all else or not. It is always important to seek the source of the ideas one is exposed to.

Apologies, the point I was trying to convey through that message was that often times it’s not the choice of famous people to have all the attention on them in a room (Sometimes, it’s not even their choice to be famous). So, the matter of the Sun “stealing the spotlight” would first depend on if the Sun chose his own existence or not.

Sure, it isn’t always the case that fame is asked for. It is harder to argue that though when we have a being dehumanizing the species, arguing for mass conversion, leading inquisitions and genocides, etc. so that it can be the center of attention.

It’s rather common for occultists to view Christianity as Solar worship, sometimes in an attempt to make Christianity seem more like those “Pagan religions of the past”.

Perhaps, I am not much caught up on popular occultism of this day, and I am not sure if it is a good source of information. For instance per popular occultism of the late 1800s/early 1900s the Osiris myth was the one truth of Egypt like Christianity in the dark ages, there has been little crossover between occultism and academia until much more recently. That said the reason those like me seem to associate Christianity with the sun is specifically because it differs from the religions of the past. No better is this illustrated than the religion of Atenism and the reaction to it.

However, here’s an interesting thing: When a person is born while the Sun is strong and well dignified, particularly his Domicile or Exaltation, they tend to have a stronger sense of self and individuality.

But one’s nature hardly matters at all if it is not their nature, but an assigned one.

@hypn0s

If we consider Qabalah, The Sun is at the heart of Etz Chaim in Tipharet. It is God himself (Kether) manifested in form as the Son, not another agent, and certainly not an evil one.

On one hand I am not sure we can use mysticism of the demiurge in order to free these ideas from Gnosticism. Of course a tool of the Sun will teach us the Sun is good and deserving of worship etc. On the other hand, emanationism is a unified whole where all differences are only illusions due to the works of God or the limits of Man.

[hypn0s]

@Xepera_maSet

On one hand I am not sure we can use mysticism of the demiurge in order to free these ideas from Gnosticism. Of course a tool of the Sun will teach us the Sun is good and deserving of worship etc.

I don’t get what you mean. Are you saying there is something inherently solar about mysticism or that it’s a tool of the demiurge? Why? What other ways of experiencing subtler planes do you then practice?

Mysticism isn’t about worship or what’s good or not, either, it’s about finding god within, no?

Besides, there can only be good by the nature of existence, if we assume the true reality/god to be eternally benevolent. Everything with an “esse” has to be fundamentally good

@Xepera_maSet

Despite the popularity of many new age beliefs, the ancients also were not using the stars to protect the future, but rather to perform what Plato called anamnesis. They were not looking to the future but the past.

That is demonstrably false, though. Astrology was born in ancient Babylonia as a way of forecasting the future by celestial omina. They recorded what notable things happened after the appearance of various phenomena, for example eclipses, and then used that empirical data to project it into the future, so that the omen can act as a signal that would allow them to foreknow and prepare for what was about to ensue after it.

Later, the science was transmitted to the Egyptians, who further refined it and started adding more complexity by observing what types of people were born, and what lifes they led, under certain planetary configurations, laying the foundations for the horoscopic tradition that blossomed in that region around 2nd century BCE with the works of Petosiris and Nechepso

Then it was passed down to the Greeks, who, again, built on top off that heritage and fully developed the doctrine of natal and electional astrology as we know it today. Those doctrines were later adopted and enhanced by the Persians, Arabs, Medievals, and finally arrived in the Renaissance, after which they were eradicated in the Enlightenment.

So, to say that the ancients didn’t use astrology to predict the future is simply wrong. In fact, a lot of the techniques used today in traditional astrology, for example predicting the day of death, come straight from Egyptian texts that survived and/or were preserved in summaries by the Greeks

[Heathen_Hermit]

I’m loving this discussion!

@hypn0s

predicting the day of death

I’d love to see this demonstated, even inaccurately. It seems like it would require extensive prerequisite knowledge…

[hypn0s]

I can demonstrate it on a few examples when I get my natal journal going. Can hardly find the time to commit to that one at the moment, I’m afraid.

I wouldn’t say it’s particularly hard. Few things in natal astrology are; they’re all a lot of work, though, unless you’re fine with broad strokes. That’s why it’s almost always a better idea to just cast a horary chart - same result but gets the work done in 15 minutes.