The 4th Dimension

[Dankquanicus]

@Veil

True, everything physical. What about things like data, soundwaves, microwaves? No argument from me, just something that popped into my head. From a spatial or perceptive perspective they’re more conceptual than anything… but I guess I say that because I rely on sight as a primary sense

I don’t think I’ve ever heard it said that these things are spiritual. Physicists don’t seem to doubt that they’re physical, either.

Sound | Properties, Types, & Facts

Wave motion | Definition, Examples, Types, & Facts

I think these articles can give more insight. Although It’s a bit beyond my knowledge, currently! But as far as I can tell, that sound is physical is not something doubted. I would imagine the same of microwaves. With data as a concept, I would agree that it is may be more spiritual. But stored data here is physical, at least.

@Veil

I can accept people using “4D” to refer to time, linear or non-linear, but in a “3D” world, space and time are inseparable, hence “spacetime”. That said, I guess you can refer to time as an additional dimension, because a dimension is something we use to measure, and time is a given measurement unit as well.

Absolutely! Good point. Some people use 4D to refer to the three Spatial Dimensions plus Time. With that, they say that we do live in a world with 4 Dimensions. Of course, time still occupies and acts on the 3 Spatial Dimensions.

@Veil

(kidding, it is an interesting subject and one worth discussing)

There is a very nice paragraph in ‘The Master Works of Chaos Magick’ by Adam Blackthorne that came to my mind while writing this:

“You can make up reasons to believe it’s all true. This is what most Chaos Magick books help you with – they talk about the way the mind exists in a moment of quantum flux and a string of multiverse potential. That sort of stuff. It sounds scientific and exciting, but it’s really just gobbledygook to convince you that the reality of magick is backed up by science. Most scientists would laugh you out of the room if they read it; better to just trust your hunch about magick.”
(Blackthorne, Adam. The Master Works of Chaos Magick: Practical Techniques For Directing Your Reality (pp. 5-6). Kindle Edition.)

@Jk999

Ok. Let’s do a thought experiment:
let’s pretend we’re an ant
and a foot is coming to crush it.

Does it see the foot? I argue you’re right it sees
A 2D surface coming to crush it and not the 3D
Foot, because it does run away, so at least it senses something.

I really liked @Veil’s response. I’ll still give my comment on this:

If ants somehow see in 2D despite having evolved as three dimensional beings, then they do still see us, as you say. We would just look pretty weird to them, and they can’t see every piece of us, but they can always see part of us when looking at us (I mean, we occupy a lot of the first dimension and second dimension, after all). It would just look like some pieces of us seem to warp in and out of existence and likely our shape would morph in strange-looking ways.

@Jk999

Now, in my life in my opinion we don’t see spirits
because the material they made of is mostly
Energy and so light mostly passes through them and isn’t reflected back to our eyes and so not processed to an image by our brains.

This brings me to another point: They don’t seem to be detectable. I don’t think scientists have found any detectable evidence of spirits before, otherwise that would be quite something. So, they must be something undetectable. Like dark energy, as you say. But if they are composed of dark energy, how can they think? How can they actually live? We must remember, we are an extremely complex body that is built up of an immense amount of interacting parts of different substances that allows us to actually think and function. Would pure physical “energy” have the ability to think, to speak, to interact in the complex ways that they do?

@Jk999

So, I argue that we have no way of knowing how many dimensions they live in if we don’t ask them directly.

Maybe, some occult authors asked the spirits in how many dimensions they exist, why don’t you ask them yourself.

I’ve been meaning to write another topic about this, and I have spoken about it before on here, but direct spiritual experience is not a reliable way to get to truth. And honestly it is worth speaking about, since a lot of beginner occultists have gone down some terrible routes because they completely trusted what the spirits told them and what they experienced.

I have no doubt that some occultists have been told by spirits that they exist in 4, or 5, or 6, and so on dimensions. And I also have no doubt that some occultists have been told by spirits that they exist in none!

Direct spiritual experience is not reliable for a few reasons: One, much of it may be illusory, produced by the mind rather than being from a spirit outside of us. Second, spirits have their own opinions about things. Third, they may have motives that cause them to give conflicting answers to different people. So, we have to be careful about fully trusting what every spirit tells us.

@Mythopoeia

• The Energetic World: The energetic world is the fourth dimensional realm that transcends space and mirrors both the physical and spiritual worlds.
• The Spiritual World: The spiritual world is the fifth dimensional realm of unexpressed forms and ideas that transcends space and time.

This is actually an excellent reference for what I mean by this entire post. Thanks for linking this excerpt from Jerry Alan Johnson.

So, it says that the fourth and fifth dimensions transcend space. That completely removes it from spatial dimensions entirely! A spatial dimension is of course spatial, so when something transcends space, it is no longer part of any spatial dimension.
Even better yet, for the fifth dimension, the author says that it transcends both time and space. Some consider us to be 4 Dimensional beings with Time as the 4th Dimension.

But the author is clearly talking about spatial dimensions since the Third Dimension he explains is the physical world, saying it is three dimensional. So, the fourth and fifth dimensions are supposed to be composed of so many dimensions, but the author has actually removed dimensions from them.

It’s nice sci-fi looking language that looks as if it gives physical or popular credibility to the idea but when you think about it, doesn’t make any sense at all.