What is Your Current Interest in Magick or Spirituality?

[Dankquanicus]

@CosmicTofu

I’ve always understood that word in the classical greek sense, a spirit who wields bane and blessing.

Interesting, as I also understand it from a classical Greek perspective. Homer calls Aphrodite in the Illiad a “Daimon”, and it is sometimes used to refer to other Gods as well. However, going from Socrates and Plato, the Greeks did not consider the Gods to do any bad or cause any misfortune.

We also see the word used for the Personal Daimon, who is also called the Genius Spirit or later on the Angel of the Nativity. The ancient Greek poet Menander says this of the Personal Daimon:

“At birth a daimon stands by each man, the good mystagogue of life; for one should not believe
that there is such a thing as an evil daimon which harms one’s life, or that God is evil-rather He is entirely good. Those who have an evil character create many conflicts in their life and show their stupidity in all things, and lay the blame on their daimon and speak ill of it, although they are themselves to blame.” (Menander, Fr. 714 trans. Korte-Thierfelder, as found in: Frederick E. Brenke, ‘A Most Strange
Doctrine: Daimon in Plutarch’)

He says this as there was a belief going around that one either has a Good Personal Daimon or an Evil Personal Daimon. Interestingly, such an idea was also adopted by the Medieval Norse, as Snorri says in his Prose Edda that the Norse believed that either a good Norn is assigned to a person at birth, or an evil Norn, and this is the cause of their misfortune throughout life.

So, we see a belief in either good Daimonae or evil Daimonae, but not that they can be mixed. And of course Menander here suggests they are only good, similar to the Gods.

So where do you get the idea that Daimonae in the Greek context wield both benefic and malefic powers?

[Jk999]

I practice daoism, energy work and chaos magic.

[CosmicTofu]

Any XYZ that treats spirit energy stuff as play-dough.

[UncleAl]

Why do you view Christianity so poorly?

Because it’s fucked! How’s that?
“I believe in a God who sent himself, to sacrifice himself to himself, in order to save humanity…wait for it…from himself. Yeah? Well it makes sense to me!”

Two thousands years of Jesus should be enough for any healthy stomach!
No one in all of history comes close to having caused as much pain, suffering, fear, misery, ignorance and death than good old Numb nuts.

Xtianity set humanity back approximately one thousand years. Where we are now, we should have been before the Norman invasion of England! Another name for the ‘Age of Faith’ is the ‘Dark Ages’.

Do you need anymore?

Al.

[UncleAl]

Now I’m pissed off. Hope you’re happy!

The precious hours I lost sitting in Sunday School being forced fed arrant bullshit by mentally crippled sickos about a two thousands years dead, deranged fucktard. And if you don’t give your entire soul, heart and mind to Jesus, you’re going to burn for all eternity. That’s a convincing argument like, ‘Suck my dick or I’ll blow your brains out.’

“Jesus loves me this I know/ For the Bible tells me so…” Well obviously, you haven’t read the completely paranoid Book of Revelation where Jesus returns as an all-powerful psychopath. I could go on, but I’m just too fucking upset.

Al.

[Mider2009]

Kabbalah

[bretbernhoft]

@Dankquanicus

What has been catching your interest lately, or what have you been pursuing?

For me, I have been pursuing traditional astrological magick and electional astrology, as well as Theurgy from the view of Platonism and Late Hellenism.

I’ve been interested in Kabbalah and Theurgy for a while now, but I have to admit I need improvement when it comes to astrology and my ability to decipher electional astrology. Are there any modern materials that you’d recommend for a man from my age who seeks to improve upon his knowledge of the subject? I know a lot of the older books are quite outdated in their techniques.

[Dankquanicus]

@bretbernhoft

Are there any modern materials that you’d recommend for a man from my age who seeks to improve upon his knowledge of the subject? I know a lot of the older books are quite outdated in their techniques.

I commend you for wanting to learn a branch of traditional astrology! This is still very rare knowledge in modern times.

Sadly, I’m afraid I don’t know of any modern books that teach traditional electional astrology. I actually did come across a modern printed work on electional astrology not too long ago, but I’m afraid I didn’t catch the name, as modern astrology is not really my interest personally. But I’ll let you know if I see it again! Although it appeared a bit basic.

Although I advise against thinking that pre-modern texts on electional astrology are outdated! The works from the Renaissance, Medieval Ages, and the Ancient Roman times (For traditional “Western” astrology) are excellent and honestly you won’t get any better when it comes to Western Astrology. They work as well today as in any other time, and have been developed over some thousands of years.

This is because, in the traditional view, everything in the world descends from the celestial realm. These celestial bodies rule over all things in the world, through all ages. Mars rules over all manner of conflict, including lawsuits, and rules over the thorns of a plant, over all weaponry, over tyrants, over bears and wolves, over all works with fire, over the lightning, and so on. I think you understand what I am getting that, that certain Platonic Forms are embodied by Mars.

So, really, you won’t get better than traditional texts on electional astrology, and I’m not aware of any modern texts that teach traditional electional astrology (Although for Hellenistic Astrology, I think Chris Brennan’s work on Hellenistic Astrology does include electional rules, but I have not read it myself, so I’m not sure!).

The only trouble is that it can be difficult to get into. This is why it’s very difficult to learn traditional astrology without a teacher. There are a few traditional astrologers today that teach traditional electional astrology. I know Christopher Warnock gives a course on it on his renaissanceastrology.com website, and he has essentially single handedly revived traditional astrology in general.

A good Renaissance text on electional astrology is Astrologia Restaurata by William Ramesey, a scan of which can be found on the British Library’s wesbite. You’d just need to get used to reading Early Modern English.

I am curious though, what do you say is outdated about older books on electional astrology? I have some ideas of what they may be.

[bretbernhoft]

@Dankquanicus

I commend you for wanting to learn a branch of traditional astrology! This is still very rare knowledge in modern times.

Sadly, I’m afraid I don’t know of any modern books that teach traditional electional astrology. I actually did come across a modern printed work on electional astrology not too long ago, but I’m afraid I didn’t catch the name, as modern astrology is not really my interest personally. But I’ll let you know if I see it again! Although it appeared a bit basic.

Although I advise against thinking that pre-modern texts on electional astrology are outdated! The works from the Renaissance, Medieval Ages, and the Ancient Roman times (For traditional “Western” astrology) are excellent and honestly you won’t get any better when it comes to Western Astrology. They work as well today as in any other time, and have been developed over some thousands of years.

This is because, in the traditional view, everything in the world descends from the celestial realm. These celestial bodies rule over all things in the world, through all ages. Mars rules over all manner of conflict, including lawsuits, and rules over the thorns of a plant, over all weaponry, over tyrants, over bears and wolves, over all works with fire, over the lightning, and so on. I think you understand what I am getting that, that certain Platonic Forms are embodied by Mars.

So, really, you won’t get better than traditional texts on electional astrology, and I’m not aware of any modern texts that teach traditional electional astrology (Although for Hellenistic Astrology, I think Chris Brennan’s work on Hellenistic Astrology does include electional rules, but I have not read it myself, so I’m not sure!).

The only trouble is that it can be difficult to get into. This is why it’s very difficult to learn traditional astrology without a teacher. There are a few traditional astrologers today that teach traditional electional astrology. I know Christopher Warnock gives a course on it on his renaissanceastrology.com website, and he has essentially single handedly revived traditional astrology in general.

A good Renaissance text on electional astrology is Astrologia Restaurata by William Ramesey, a scan of which can be found on the British Library’s wesbite. You’d just need to get used to reading Early Modern English.

I am curious though, what do you say is outdated about older books on electional astrology? I have some ideas of what they may be.

By outdated I mainly mean that some of the material has to be read in a more metaphorical way, as people of modern times see many of the older texts as superstitious. But I’ll definitely look more into the older texts you’ve suggested. If you’re interested in sharing, what is your personal favorite ancient book on astrology? I need a good starting point to get me going.

[Dankquanicus]

@bretbernhoft

By outdated I mainly mean that some of the material has to be read in a more metaphorical way, as people of modern times see many of the older texts as superstitious.

Very true! You’ll find models that we don’t use anymore, like the Geocentric model with Planetary Spheres, for example. However, Plotinus was asked if the Planets and Stars was causes, and in his Enneads he explains that they are not causes. Rather, this entire cosmos is one single unified body, one living being. So, we are able to see future things signified by the Stars in the same way that a physician can look at one part the body and gather information about another. And so, forms of divination work, such as being able to divine future events by looking at the flight of birds.

So, my view is that the Stars and Planets point towards higher spiritual movements at work at all times. In fact, everything does, but the Stars and Planets (As the visible lights in the sky) have special signification because their motion is so perfect. So what we see of them is a more perfect signifier of the higher spiritual heavens.
With that, I still use some old models such as the Heavenly Spheres in my spiritual practice, even though they are not materially correct.

@bretbernhoft

If you’re interested in sharing, what is your personal favorite ancient book on astrology? I need a good starting point to get me going.

Hmm my main area of focus is astrological magick, and secondarily electional astrology. I’m afraid I won’t name my favorite work here at the request of the author (and for good reason). But I recommend Agrippa’s Three Books on Occult Philosophy, for understanding the Celestial World and how everything descends from these higher worlds. Really, it is as famous as it is for a reason. But good astrological knowledge is needed to understand it, and much observation and contemplation as well.

For electional, I like William Ramesey’s ‘Astrologia Restaurata’, I recommend studying it!
William Lilly (another Renaissance astrologer, who became immensely famous with his skill in Horary Astrology) has very excellent lists of rulership in his Christian Astrology, which is very helpful to understanding the Planets. William Ramesey also has such lists in the second book of Astrologia Restaurata, and it’s mostly very similar (although more geared towards Mundane Astrology), but I mainly use Willaim Lilly’s lists.

‘Christian Astrology’ and ‘Astrologia Restaurata’ also explain various other astrological terms in their introductory texts, which will be helpful.

[bretbernhoft]

@Dankquanicus

Very true! You’ll find models that we don’t use anymore, like the Geocentric model with Planetary Spheres, for example. However, Plotinus was asked if the Planets and Stars was causes, and in his Enneads he explains that they are not causes. Rather, this entire cosmos is one single unified body, one living being. So, we are able to see future things signified by the Stars in the same way that a physician can look at one part the body and gather information about another. And so, forms of divination work, such as being able to divine future events by looking at the flight of birds.

So, my view is that the Stars and Planets point towards higher spiritual movements at work at all times. In fact, everything does, but the Stars and Planets (As the visible lights in the sky) have special signification because their motion is so perfect. So what we see of them is a more perfect signifier of the higher spiritual heavens.
With that, I still use some old models such as the Heavenly Spheres in my spiritual practice, even though they are not materially correct.

I appreciate your perspective and the way you’ve connected the cosmos with spirituality. It’s fascinating to consider how ancient models like the Geocentric model with Planetary Spheres can still have value in spiritual practices, even if they are no longer scientifically accurate. The idea that everything in the universe, including stars and planets, points towards higher spiritual movements is quite profound. It’s a reminder that sometimes we can gain insights from various sources, even if they aren’t strictly based in current scientific understanding. Your approach to spirituality seems to blend these different sources of wisdom in a unique and meaningful way.

@Dankquanicus

Hmm my main area of focus is astrological magick, and secondarily electional astrology. I’m afraid I won’t name my favorite work here at the request of the author (and for good reason). But I recommend Agrippa’s Three Books on Occult Philosophy, for understanding the Celestial World and how everything descends from these higher worlds. Really, it is as famous as it is for a reason. But good astrological knowledge is needed to understand it, and much observation and contemplation as well.

For electional, I like William Ramesey’s ‘Astrologia Restaurata’, I recommend studying it!
William Lilly (another Renaissance astrologer, who became immensely famous with his skill in Horary Astrology) has very excellent lists of rulership in his Christian Astrology, which is very helpful to understanding the Planets. William Ramesey also has such lists in the second book of Astrologia Restaurata, and it’s mostly very similar (although more geared towards Mundane Astrology), but I mainly use Willaim Lilly’s lists.

‘Christian Astrology’ and ‘Astrologia Restaurata’ also explain various other astrological terms in their introductory texts, which will be helpful.

Your interest in astrological magick and electional astrology is certainly intriguing. It seems like you’ve delved deep into the subject matter, and your recommendations of Agrippa’s Three Books on Occult Philosophy and William Ramesey’s Astrologia Restaurata indicate a strong foundation in the field. It’s always great to see people passionately exploring their interests and finding value in historical works like those of William Lilly’s Christian Astrology.

For those who are new to these subjects or are looking to expand their knowledge, your recommendations provide a helpful starting point. By studying the works you’ve mentioned, one can gain an understanding of the celestial world, planetary rulership, and other key astrological concepts. It’s fascinating to see how these texts continue to inform and inspire individuals in their spiritual practices, even centuries after they were written.