Maybe an aspect, but not the whole. Who would they then call on?
If they also have a path upwards, this makes sense to do. Others would be imprinted with aspects and eventually move up. Thus the cycle continues.
I don’t believe a whole one would do it. It would be irresponsible as a large gap would be here. And why would the whole come when it isn’t needed?
This is a problem in the Occult community as a whole, actually. People with a bit of power (maybe) decide they must be SO much more than themselves and then start believing it.
But the largest problem with this is this - they can’t seem to do really god-like/goddess-like things. Then comes the whole, “well, they’re hobbled so others can continue their growth appropriately” or similar claims.
No, it’s pretty simple. If someone is the “whole” god and not just favored by an aspect, then this should’ve enriched their lives in a meaningful, demonstrable way, as they can enrich ours in meaningful, demonstrable ways. Big ways, not alchemy-this and alchemy that.
We tell people to rely upon the quantity and quality of results for their magic. I would hold those that feel they are incarnation to the same charge…and to the next level.
I take the Platonist view regarding the Gods. I view the Gods as being the creators of the entire cosmos. The Planets and Stars are also the Encosmic Gods. So everything in the cosmos is already theirs. The Heavenly spirits are already within all things.
With The One, which Plato also called ‘The Good’ (These are Platonist terms for what is sometimes called “The Source”), the Gods and cosmos did not need to arise out of it. As Iamblichus says, it is similar to a fountain that overflows. Everything arose out of it simply because of its goodness.
Similarly, the Gods grant blessings because this is in their nature as well, arising out of The One, being given life by the Divine Demiurgos (Who is benevolent in Platonism). So, similarly, they grant blessings purely out of their goodness.
Coming from a Demonolatry perspective (not a “pure” one), this would seem so “off”. But, as my practice continues, the giving of this and that as payment is more of a respect thing, than something needed. More from a relationship of sorts perspective, but it is something I’ve noticed as time goes on.
I know this seems like a stray on the topic, but is it? No, not really.
It actually makes me wonder what they would hope to achieve singly, rather than acting through competent admirers/worshipers/etc… That IS a legitimate question.
If they are Above and Below, why would they be between, arguably in a less-influential, may less-able form to achieve something an adherent could already do or help happen. If a physical link is needed for any sort of human divinity, then an invocation or possession should suffice, right?
I think would be in some ways the same wether they are walking in this world or on the other side.
Spirits don’t do the work for us, or even really hold our hands. They give us enough information at the time to do what needs to be done , they push us and encourage us, but they don’t do it for us. We have to do the work to bring about the changes or growth that we need.
So I think they would still watch over and guide us but they wouldn’t simply make everything peaches n cream.
But, looking back most god’s and goddess were known for specific things, like the god of storms or goddess of love, god of the harvest.
Maybe they would come back to help us better understand the things they Mastered.
Like a motherly goddess would come back to help humanity with love and compassion maybe.
A war god or goddess may return when we need help with some great foe.
I have a question about that. How come some people are more “blessed” by the gods, or spirits, without really needing to do anything, while some other people struggle with that ? Not sure if my question is super clear
Hekate is known to be hell, heaven and earth. It seems to me she has the ability if she’s chooses to walk on earth or be in the heavens or in the depths of hell.
I think there would be an Overall god that is in everything, then like taking a drop from the ocean there is a part of the god that can walk the earth. And even though it’s like a drop from the whole god, it’s still the god, and when it returns like adding a drop of ocean back to the ocean it just absorbs back into the whole.
There is a general tendency to distrust among people today. Not that that is necessarily a bad thing in itself, but it valuable to recognize where this comes from. People in the Demonolatry side seem to tend to distrust Gods and such naturally, and expect an ulterior motive to when they help people (Which is deemed either deceptive or “opportunistic”) very similar to a modern business enviroment, perhaps. This likely comes from personal experiences and upringing etc. If we look towards it. I myself always expected selfishness and ulterior motives, deception etc. From people, and that extended to spirits in my early practice. This definitely comes from experiences in my childhood.
Now, very interestingly, I was once praying to one of the Norse Gods (I am not mentioning here who it was out of respect), and in the ritual where I said “I give you this drink as an offering”, I got the sense, which I believe was the deity communicating to me, that I should call it a “gift” instead of an “offering”.
This was before I learnt about the Hellenic Pagan or Platonist view on this, which is the same. I don’t recall who said it now, but a certain Roman author said that the Gods cannot be bribed, I think that was a nice way of saying it in my view. The Gods cannot be bribed, rather, these are gifts, not offers. I like that approach personally.
Now, on why the Gods would do this without ulterior motives. Plato had very interesting comments on the nature of people in his dialogue “Meno”, where Socrates explains that it is not in the nature of people to desire evil. We do not do evil things for the sake of doing evil. We always think there is some good in it. Even the worst serial killers did the things they did and felt they were doing the right thing (or, they made an excuse to justify what they did, despite knowing it was wrong). I don’t think we would find a case where someone has done something just for the sake of doing evil, rather, they are always doing it seeking after something good, in a sense. I would say, perhaps in most “normal” individuals, be we certainly see this in serial killers and terrorists and even the mentally ill.
Now, I feel that extends to the spiritual as well, but more perfected. No doubt some spirits are similar to us in this regard, but Socrates rejected the anthromorphism of the Gods, saying do not be so quick to believe the Gods would do evil. And I believe Plato or Aristotle said in one of the dialogues that it must be impossible for a God to wish to change themselves, because the only change that it could then tend towards would be to the worse (As in, the Gods are perfect themselves).
Now, one might think about power, then, don’t they desire power, like a ruler desires power? Well, Plato has some interesting comments about power and the relationship between a King and his subjects in his ‘The Republic’ that are interesting to consider in this context. So, I would not think that they would desire it in the sense that we are talking. And Aristotle has explained how the Gods are unified in their nature and perfect, so I wouldn’t say that they even “desire” things like we do, which seems to arise from looking and chasing after impermanent things (such as those things in the material world, which seem to come into and out of existence. Although in truth, it is only the form that is lost. But, because of the wonderful reproductive ability of the world, not even the form is truly lost. This, I say, is the image of immortality in the material world). Aristotle also suggested that the Gods are in an eternal state of divine bliss, divine happiness. This is why it is quite appropriate to worship the Gods when one is happy.
A wise man here in the world, when perfection is attained, reaches a wonderful state, and seems to lose desire for material things, and attains happiness. This is from a qaulity of the higher spiritual.
A few of these views I have mentioned differ from cultures depending on how they understand the Gods. But the view of the Gods can be very similar to how the Greeks viewed them across cultures. And certainly concepts such as ‘The One’ and a Demiurgos are very widespread, being near universal.
Very interesting question. Now, I am likely not fully equipped to answer it. But, I will try to give my thoughts.
As certain middle eastern sages have said, you will find that your petitions to certain Planets will be carried out swiftly and with more power when that planet was strong and well dignified when you were born. So, in the case of the Celestial Spirits, we seem to have a pre-existing relationship with them. And I have seen it often that when someone has trouble with a certain spirit, a Planet of the same or similar nature was afflicted by essential dignity when they were born.
Now, I believe your soul has trouble reaching them when this is the case. This is one potential view.
Because, I read a lot of people who are struggling to connect with gods, even though they do everything right, they do not get those “blessings”, or they might connect with one god, after a long ass time.
When I look at myself, I see the contrary. I do not do much, yet I get spirits reaching out and helping me on things, and I really do not understand how that works. Not complaining, but it’s kinda what the fuck lol.
Perhaps, its because gods and goddesses can see someone’s heart and know their true intentions or what they would do with those blessings. And I know that’s not the 100 percent but could be some of it.
Like some magicians I just do not want to work with. I’ve been bound to several objects by several different magicians and some I don’t mind being there at all but others I look for a way out real quick. I can feel the type of magick they want to do and I don’t want to be there or help in any way. But others, it’s like ok , I’m here no big deal. And then others I try to see and learn all I can so I can help them.