I’ve found that combining different forms of magic really helps to achieve results in the material world.
In my life I combined visionary and ceremonial magic.
What are your thoughts on the subject?
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I think it will depend on what areas of magick are to be combined. Some will be harmonious, others less harmonious.
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Chaos magic relies on transcending paradigms. @Dankquanicus what do you think can you combine astrology and chaos magic?
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I’d say that you can combine astrology with any practice! Particularly Electional Astrology.
However, you cannot combine Chaos Magick with Astrological Talismanic Magick. You cannot, for example, call upon a Deity like Odin to create a Mercury talisman. They are not the same being.
And you cannot make a benefic Planetary talisman when the Planet in question is severely afflicted. The post-modernist “nothing is real, except for what I believe” philosophy of Chaos Magick just does not hold up well with traditional astrology. This is where some have seriously injured themselves.
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I agree that talismans don’t play well with chaos magic.
Some would be chaos magicians do say that anything goes, serious chaos magicians though believe only things that work should be used:
Obviously talisman creation is both an art and a science and has precise rules.
Evoking Superman for example is less precise and more of an art, because he’s more of a pop culture god.
You have to look at the facts, like combining different tunes usually results in an unpleasant sound than a harmonious one, the same things with combining different forms of magic.
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The chaos magick I remember stated that, “I don’t care about the mechanisms behind the results, just that there are results. If it works, I’ll use it. If it doesn’t, I won’t”. It was an exploration of what personal will and creativity could achieve and a liberation from antiquated dogma.
Maybe I simply misunderstood it all from the beginning as a teenager, but it seems to have shifted from exploring reality to actively defying it. A concept more and more entrenched in a Western culture obsessed with “the individual” and pushing personal perspective as unassailable. It is an extreme elevation of subjective truth that is not at all helpful.
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As far as I’m aware, Chaos Magick has for a long time been involved with Post-Modernism, particularly it’s skepticism/subjectivism views.
I’ve actually been wanting to explore the history of Chaos Magick for some time.
Very nice analogy! (Is that the right term for it?)
A similar thing within traditional astrology is that you can’t really mix too many different traditions into one, or things become muddied. Two significantly different traditions can be syncretized harmoniously by a master, but otherwise risks becoming muddied and innacurate.
Also, just adding it here because I do think these terms are significant: I wouldn’t call Superman a God. I think traditionally Superman might have been called a Phantasm. Or, it is close to it.
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I believe Magic should be combined for the sake of results, while areas with many rules and a lot of details like traditional astrology like you said @Dankquanicus probably cannot.
Sometimes a cake must be baked, it cannot be fried, I agree with that.
But like you said, electional astrology
and geomancy can be combined right? it’s still baking cookies, but with chocolate chip and to add vanilla to them doesn’t ruin them, but makes them better
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Hah, I like your way of speaking with analogies! It feels a bit poetic in a way.
Also, if you referred to the divinatory practice of Geomancy, it was combined primarily with Horary Astrology (-Divining the answers to questions through the state of the Heavens at the birth of the question), rather than Electional Astrology (-Choosing astrologically auspicious times to take action).
But, there are inner, hidden workings of the cosmos present behind everything at all times, that ultimately produces all things in the world. Traditional Astrology is one way of actually seeing these inner workings at play, and so electional astrology is using times when these inner workings, when the Almighty and the Rulers of the Cosmos beneath them, are ruling most favorably for one thing or another. I once saw a video of a Jewish Rabbi explaining that astrology reveals how God is ruling at any particular time (Favorably for Judgement, for Merriment, etc.), and I quite liked that and believe it to be traditional.
Robert Zoller has a very nice explanation of this in the introduction of his book “The Arabic Parts in Astrology”.
So, that is why I saw Electional Astrology is helpful to Chaos Magick, and any other practice, because it reveals the inner workings that work behind any practice!
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Ty for the clarification @Dankquanicus I’ve always wanted to learn more about astrology and doing it little by little…
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@Dankquanicus well said and I’m in complete agreement. The old “nothing is real except what I believe” …is old and played out like Voldemort or Sega…do beliefs influence things, certainly,you might so far as to say our beliefs set our expectations and our expectations are most usually met spot on of near.
But…here the the case of a young magician who was performing a planetary hexagram Magick rite for mercury…he tried three times and wondered why his bones ached, he feels depressed and heavy hearted each time he tried…turns out he was actually tracing the wrong hexagram. Instead of Mercury he was tracing Saturn. That’s why he got Saturn results.
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What do others think? Can you or cannot combine and why?
What goes together and what doesn’t?
I’ll share my own personal experience:
I’m a rebel at heart and always shunned dogma.
So, was always drawn to the chaos paradigm.
Always wanted results and not being dependent on another party but myself, so was also attracted to
Visionary magic. Found visionary magic hard to
Apply in my everyday life. So turned to hybrid magic:
Combing ceremonial elements within my practice.
Then, I turned to the LOA(law of assumption)
& LOC and they seem to work well for me.
Everyday I’m learning something new and trying to combine it into my practice…
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So, @norse900
you’re saying magical systems are an interface
Like in programming there’s the program and there’s a user interface most people access it with?
So, is it fair to say in your opinion that essentially the forces behind the masks of systems can be worked with directly?
Is there one force with many masks or many
or one general force and many sub forces?
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Very interesting story! I will say, if someone makes a Saturn talisman while Saturn is in his Detriment or Fall, and they were also born while Saturn was in his Detriment or Fall, things can get very disastrous very quickly… And that applies to any Planet, not just the Greater and Lesser Malefics.
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I’ll say, proper astrological talismans require knowledge to make. You can make them under mediocre elections, although there is some danger if you do not know the position of the Planets.
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Yep. I used a grimoire to make these planetary “talismans”, more like a bag of ingredients. That approach burned me badly. I can still feel the effect of the sun, mercury, and saturn being in super bad alignment. The author is way better of a magician than I am, but that grimoire needs like a courtesy update or something.
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What is the grimoire called, if I may ask?
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Seven Spheres by Rufus Opus. Again I’m not arguing or anything.
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