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Hermetic Fundamentals

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I haven’t taken it.


Interesting. I wonder what it means by “Hermetics”, if perhaps it is in the same sense as Franz Bardon’s ‘Initiation into Hermetics’ where ‘Hermetics’ means “Ceremonial Magick” as far as I understand it, rather than Hermeticism.


I found the website after reading an interview about the intersection of Bardonism and Daoist Magick, so probably the former. I can’t say I really looked into it though :woman_shrugging:


See, this is stuff most of us wouldn’t know. I imagine it’s something that would take a while to explain (or I missed it if it has been). Do you know of any credible research/links that would explain this?


I’m actually interested @Mythopoeia I’ll be glad to check it out and report to the forum my findings. I suspect it’ll be a bit basic for me now but I could be surprised.

@norse900 @Dankquanicus

No hermetics is not actually ceremonial magick. Franz bardons system of excercise and magical philosophy drew heavily on the teachings of Hermes Trismegistos and his emerald tablet.

There is actually very little ceremonial magick in hermetic theory or practice that I’m aware of myself.

Though there a very strong links in the western ceremonial magick tradition as it’s practiced now to hermetic thought and philosophy.

So it’s like one doesn’t need the other ( hermetics) to be functional in its own way.

Though the other ( western ceremonial magick) does need hermetics.

I’d say something I can liken this to that we might all be more familiar with would be like the kybalion , corpus hermeticum, dogma er ritual de la haute magic by eliphaz levi, magic in theory and practice, Crowley.

These titles draw strongly from hermetic philosophy tradition.


I’m afraid not! I should have said this in my original response, but I have not read Bardon’s IIH myself. What I said was based off of what Sam Block (An excellent Hermeticist and Magician) of said regarding IIH here:

Reading that response and the rest of the post may give some insight into why he says IIH is not really a Hermetic text.

From my understanding, Hermeticism is largely focused on purifying the Soul to reach union with The One, and having it’s own theology regarding that. It’s interesting to note that the post says that Zosimus of Panopolis suggests that Hermes Trismegistus disavowed magick. Of course, Hermeticism was still very much associated with magick later on, but it’s interesting to note because magick is not fundamental to Hermeticism.

I believe there’s not much reference to it in the Corpus Hermeticum, although there is a reference to what can be called magick in the Asclepius as far as I’ve seen (But I want to note that I haven’t fully read either the Corpus Hermeticum or Asclepius, especially the latter) but there is a tradition of magickal texts stemming from Hermeticism, and this is called the Technical Hermetica. That includes the Greek Magical Papyri, and texts such as the Kyranides. I also know of two Medieval Arabic magical texts, largely Astrological, that can be considered as Hermetic. So there is a tradition of Ceremonial Magick within the Hermetic tradition prior to the Enlightenment of the 18th Century.

But I am not well versed in Hermeticism and have not studied it thoroughly. I may speak more on this if I become more well-versed.

I will say I do disagree with this, as I said previously that it seems Hermeticism is largely focused on purifying the Soul to reach union with God. Not all ceremonial magick has that as a goal. What ceremonial magick arguably does need, however, is the idea of correspondence and sympathy between all things.
One also does not need to approach ceremonial magick within a Hermetic context either. One can certainly also approach it in a Platonist/Neoplatonist context as well, as one example. And Hermeticism itself was largely influenced by Platonism.

I want to add here however, that The Kybalion is not a Hermetic text, and for that I actually do have a nice more scholarly article.


Yes this is true.

I understand where the author is coming from but respectfully disagree none the less.

Interesting alot of Bardons IIH can be said to be geared exactly towards this end. I think where the waters get muddy with IIH is it’s inclusion of the kaballah which isn’t really part or parcel to the original concepts of hermetic theory.

My friend I will give you one example that scratches the surface of this. On the tarot card the magician the magician points up and down. A clear allusion to the importance of “as above so below” this is just one of many examples I could make where hermetic thought permeates western ceremonial magick.

By who? Alot of magicians do it consider it a hermetic text. It’s ok to disagree on that point or any of the others I’ve or you’ve made, it seems even amongst our kind there is a great deal.of confusion regarding the very basics or what hermetics is and isn’t :laughing::laughing:.

I thought I was helping and giving clarification, turns out perhaps I was giving just my opinions or those who agreed with my point of view. Maybe I’m just muddying up the waters now.


Good to see you again @Dankquanicus


How so? It is collection of pagan folk sorcery rooted in (often wildly eclectic) spirit work with no underlying religious framework. Helios is the deity appealed to the most, followed by Hekate. The majority of the spells are focused on sexual coercion and retaliation magick, not mystical union or revelation.


You know what @Mythopoeia thats actually a good point. Why do we consider the Greek Magickal papyrus among the core of hermetic practices when it’s subject material deviates so strongly.

You know as @Dankquanicus has me thinking. Maybe alot of I was told or read were hermetic, well maybe as they aren’t as hermetic as I had thought.

I do recognize my opinions aren’t actually facts and may be in error here.


Hey @anon75849095 it’s always good to learn and to evolve


Yeah nothing wrong with that.

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That is true, I didn’t mean that Hermeticism didn’t influence western ceremonial magick, it had a large influence. I misunderstood what you meant regarding Hermeticism and western ceremonial magick, I thought you meant one cannot approach ceremonial magick without a Hermetic view, apologies for that!

They consider it Hermetic because The Kybalion calls itself Hermetic. However, we should have distinctions between things. A Satanist text is not a Christian text and a Christian text is not Satanist text. Or, an Old Norse religous poem is not a Buddhist text.
The Kybalion is certainly not a Hermetic text even though it calls itself such, but the article I posted regarding the Kybalion shows there’s very significant differences between Hermeticism and The Kybalion.

Haha it’s great to see you! I missed having these conversations with you. Even before you left for a while, I don’t think we had these kind of conversations much.

Yes the PGM is very varied since it is a collection of works from authors of various backgrounds. Some sections can be said to be influenced by Hermeticism, however, having a Hermetic concept of God.

I myself don’t have great knowledge regarding Hermeticism, so my words should not be taken as reliable on the subject. Perhaps it’s time to delve into the Corpus Hermeticum and Asclepius!


Yeah, I understand you’re saying, good point.

Been meaning to look into Asclepius for awhile, cool synchronicity. Must be there I need to see, a key possibly to something else mysterious and necessary to examine.

Yeah, it is nice to have other minds to bounce some of this off of for sure. That’s how we arrive a consensus and greater knowledge overall.


This my new favourite verb…

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Haha that’s a high powered typo, supposed to be understand lol


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