Desperation's Role in Magick?

What is says on the label. What is the role of desperation in magick?
I think this is General, but please help me if I’m wrong?

Someone people don’t think these two go well, but my experience is that desperation is a strong driver of magick.

For me at least, when I’m desperate my magick tends to work wonders. I’m not sure if it’s because because of the emotion involved, the spirits that have my back, or anything else. But I think temporary and focused desperation can be really good for magick. Maybe it depends on situation, magick’s target, and magician though.

I’ll give an example on desperation and magick for reference. When I was in high school I really wanted an ‘A’ in a class and I was concerned I wouldn’t get it. So a a few days before the semester finals I called Dantalion and asked for what I wanted. I was desperate. I got what I wanted that time. Here’s a higher stakes example, someone I had a close relationship with had a leg blood clot that needed immediate resolution. The doctor said the person wouldn’t walk normally again. I called Buer and that same night the human felt something strange and when they returned to the doctor, “magickally” they were nearly all better and since then have not related issues despite the cause of the injury and the severity.

Here’s my question: Is desperation with regard to magick (results) good, bad, helpful, unhelpful? What are your thoughts on it?


I agree, it applies to all of us, despite how we choose to look at it. As such this is good placement.

It depends. If it’s critical life changing in that very moment- yes I can get drastic results in the moment from the emotion, but I’m not sure I’d call that desperate. More like either determined, or scared shitless of what happens if I fail.

All other types of desperate and strong desire for a result work against me personally. Until I get it out of my mind, I won’t see results.

As such I just find something else to do, help someone, start a new magic project on an inner level, or do a bunch of magic for little things I want and need - but that are not of desperate desire.

I almost immediately get results as soon as I change focus, so I’ve actually decided to use it to my good, and any time I feel like I just can’t wait or want this so bad I can’t live without it- I get busy with something else, then I get results near immediately.

It’s almost like speeding it up for me know I understand the difference between the two and how to work with them instead of against them in my practice.


We agree.

Bingo. I don’t have anything to share so far, but I think emotion in magick can play wonders when rightly applied.

We’re taught to get into an emotion-less state, and while that works, I don’t believe is the only thing that can work.


As of late I have been tending towards a more “unorthodox” approach to emotions in magick. Most magicians have had results when they did not have much emotions in ritual at all. Yet, we often speak of how important faith and emotion is in magick, so by that model, it should not be possible.

The importance of faith in magick goes to Eliphas Levi, as far as I’m aware, although it does make some reference in our traditional texts, but it seems before Eliphas Levi it wasn’t considered with as much importance. Rather, much power in magick, when invoking spirits or using items, was seem to come from the spirits or the objects themselves.

Now, magicians today have a strong will and a kind of pyramid scheme mindset where anything is possible for anyone. We don’t want to accept that the spirits might just not grant us our requests. So, that likely plays a role in this view of the importance of faith and emotion.

I certainly believe the influence of the Soul and our Spirit should be present in our works, so to turn out minds towards the working and towards spiritual things and have calm faith in a working is beneficial, because with this our Soul reaches out strongly for the benefit of the working, but I also don’t think these spirits abandon us because we didn’t have the right emotions or faith.

I cannot recall a working I did with desperation that was successful, although other factors were certainly at play there, but I have had workings be successful powerfully when I didn’t have much emotions or faith. I don’t see why this is going to be a massive issue. When a beginner reports trouble getting magick to work, we often say it is their own fault for it, and their emotions and faith is at fault, which may be true to a degree but there are many beginners who practice magick without faith or without emotion and yet they are successful.


Emotions are energy. Raw energy man.

When I was high school i did speech contests. I was scared shitless, the girl who eat lunch alone… and suddenly I’m in front of people and trying to eloquently read something important and relate it to them so they can understand…

I didn’t know what alchemy was, but I somehow without knowing how I did it, figured out I could use my fear to project my voice, and make the emotion be what I felt About the topic, so that everyone in the room was… engaged.

Somehow as a kid, I already had a sense for some of this, but yeah you just need to use the energy to fuel your goal- doesn’t matter if it’s rage or love, sadness or hate- some types are easier for each of us than others, then if you can feel it think about what your using it for or what the better type of energy would be for the working and bam!

Transmutation of thine energies.

Gallery of magic has been teaching us how to do it without saying how to do it forever, or what it really meant.

Just do this and get results.

It would probably be to hard to do what they do and teach the foundational parts like this, but that’s okay… I need a purpose in life!


Oh! This is pretty much what I meant by “desperate,” you nailed it.

This is still a lesson I’m learning to get a handle on. I know what I’m supposed to do, and I know how to. But sometimes I get caught up in want and my results take the extra time when to show up.


I love this. Some of the ancient sages tell us, that public speaking is a form of magick. One medieval apocryphal text attributed to Plato speaks on this, saying that when we believe the words we speak, we are all the more able to convince others of our words. I see it as an act of Spirit overcoming Spirit.


It takes practice. That is a hard one even if you get it and can do it most of the time, I still get myself in loops sometimes.

The important part is understanding it, knowing what to do then trying to.

The intent to do it will help you do it.

Intent directs energy… so you intend to let it go even though you struggle to, so you will be because your intent says you will.

It just takes longer because it’s the long route instead of the shortcut !


Woah! I’ve mostly heard to get emotional about it and emotionless won’t work as well. Of course, I don’t really believe that, it’s just different.


Yes, I think in the end are just methods to tap into something. Many things have power.


Anytime I interact with people in the same room and speak, I have to be careful how I feel at the same time. I can’t just be going through something in the back of my head, because the entire room can feel it even if my tone, intention and voice align with that problem isn’t what we are dealing with.

Then I’ve also had people tell me for years that just being around me was soothing, combine it with my acceptance and inability to sugar coat shit…

Idk but I think it’s not magic all by it’s self because it’s basically energy work. But I do think it’s a form of magic, like all energy work is.

Imop. Just learning like all y’all too still!


Oh yeah. And the secret sauce is even if you don’t feel it, if you know how it should feel you can think about that to conjure up that type of energy.

You don’t have to project it for others to feel it, if you do this part well.

But you can if you have specific intentions or targets/which is basically my energy tutorial that I rewrote somewhere on here.


Sighs. Another secret is you can use this to mask thoughts form people who are around who are sensitive.

Guess since we are helping each other…

Basically if you don’t want someone to know how you really feel, focus your mind inside on something else, what you want them to feel- think of that feeling in a memory where you felt it, then hold onto that feeling.

They’ll feel that instead of whatever is really inside.


However it doesn’t work with my husband. Or anyone who knows me stupid well.

But it’s a better shield when dealing with sneaky people, those you intend to get back at but don’t want to fck you while you do it, those who shouldn’t know things etc. People you don’t trust or who shouldn’t know your business or feelings basically.

I try to use it as a cop out tho, and it doesn’t work, my man feels it so we deal with it, because my energy/feelings just won’t hide from him! This is why it’s important to be smart who your intimate with, man bad people can fck you up. Spirits too. (Some of why)

Most of the time I find people don’t read your thoughts, they read your energy. So realign it and they read it wrong, despite of whatever your are thinking.

You can however learn to hold two thoughts at once and make one the primary and the other the real working thoughts

But someone who can read thoughts may recognize if your primary thoughts are simpler than what they should be for you or sense that you are hiding something.


The we should study Demostenes, greatest orator ever born. The word itself has magickal properties due to its transformative power. Is the first action to cross any barrier.


You go run off and do that and when you come back I’ll confirm your experience, Rey my man. :joy::joy:

Make sure you tag me when you come back with proof of my little secret sauces please! :face_with_spiral_eyes::rofl::rofl:

Just giving ya hard time! I swear!


This is a really amazing point. Especially when related to emotions in workings.

I see this more with newer folks than those of us that have been around. I’ve had spirits deny me before and it sucks, but it is what it is. Sometimes I do magick without them too though so I wonder how that factors into this.

I love this sentiment, it’s really well thought out and worded. I’m not quite sure my person perspective on it, I’d have to consider a moment but I really appreciate this line.

Super interesting!!

And I definitely agree there are varying reasons for people being unsuccessful and attributing it emotions or lack of just as an “easy out” isn’t helpful to the community as a whole or newbies still trying to learn the ropes (to success or in general).


This is really cool! I’ve been contemplating for a while the role of fear in success but especially magick. And I haven’t found a single place fear could be of value to magick.

I love hearing about others’ “magick” or almost magick as kids.


This is actually really helpful to me right now!!

I should make a post on this…I fucked with the energy I give/gave off for a few months (about half a year or more) once and it fucked me up so much. I refuse to do it again unless I really, really need to. Definitely effective though.


That’s a good opportunity for the beginners to learn from your mistakes, so I agree.


This usually does three things for you. First is the energy output. You don’t have to pull external energy to do it (my preferred method).

The second is that it gives lazer-like clarity to the problem and the desired outcome, meaning there’s less internal conflict or resistance.

The third is that it can be easier to let go, knowing you’ve done all you could. While it could go he other way, if it doesn’t turn out, you still can say you did something about it.

I rarely use a.lot of emotion, because it’s costly and I can pull externally. I typically do several workings at a time, so that’s an important factor to me.